r/ukraine May 11 '22 Gold 1 Wholesome 1 Powerups Post 1 Silver 3

China has made its choice in favor of Ukraine, - Oleksiу Arestovich.The Chinese leadership held consultations and concluded that Ukraine, as a result of this war, can return all its territories, including Crimea and Donbass, an adviser to the head of the President's Office said News

https://mobile.twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/1524484859342770180
11.0k Upvotes

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3.6k

u/wefarrell May 11 '22

China has likely come to the conclusion that Ukraine is going to win and they don't want to back a loser.

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u/Ca2Alaska May 11 '22

Glad china gave permission for Ukraine to inhabit it’s own lands.

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u/II-I-Hulk-I-II May 12 '22 Silver

Now do the Uyghurs

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u/Excellent_Night5203 May 12 '22 Wholesome

We seriously cannot turn a blind eye on China anymore. People, if Ukranian War taught us one thing, that is we cannot turn a blind eye when even OUR side decides to do some fucked uo shit (cough cough US Middle East, and Dick Cheney, Uyghurs and Tibetans in China, Yakutsks of Russia and many more...) we need to root out all totalitarian regimes. Ukraine is just the first glorious step towards normalcy. SLAVA UKRAINI HEROYAM SLAVA

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u/gavroche1972 May 12 '22

I think the overwhelming global support for Ukraine will (hopefully) give China pause before deciding to try to take over Taiwan.

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u/Serenity101 May 12 '22

Just imagine Xi and Putin, both being what appears to be very seriously ill, each having an epiphany that would leave them wanting nothing more than to leave the planet with dignity, to be celebrated and mourned the world over, admired for having turned a new leaf and used their lofty positions to make positive impacts on the wellbeing of mankind and the planet...before it's too late, before they're destined to only be remembered as they are now... and no words seem dark and heinous enough to describe that.

I want to live on that kind of planet.

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u/tLNTDX May 12 '22

Sounds like humanity would owe an awful lot to anyone who manages to convince them to take a tab or two of LSD...

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u/TheThrowbackJersey May 12 '22

Definitely a brutal reminder of the real dangers of authoritarianism. It's not just lies and theft

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u/Serenity101 May 12 '22

There's an authoritarian in Brazil who's allowing the destruction of the lungs of our planet, that's the biggest danger right now.

Bolsonaro and his cronies all need to be sanctioned as heavily as Putin and his entourage, until he steps down and takes his reckless ideologies with him.

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u/73ninjas May 12 '22

Agreed, Bolsonaro should be pushing up daisies along with the rest of his crew.

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u/da2Pakaveli May 12 '22

Bolsonaro is a fucking dumbass, he’s no problem endangering the indigenous and can’t let them live in peace. Last year the jungle emitted more than it processed, I remember back in the day: “Protect the jungle at all costs, it’s important for the climate!!!” and now it’s all changed. No problem with illegal forest fires, destroying beautiful nature and advancing further into a lot of unexplored territory. There could be some nasty viruses there and we’ll have a next pandemic on our hands, don’t fuck with nature. And this dumbass keeps going at it

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u/MountainMedic1206 May 12 '22

I respect your statement and certainly agree with it but I would like to take opportunity to point to the ocean as the primary carbon sink (by fairly large measure) and we are murdering it.
Please reference “Seaspiracy” on Netflix.

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u/Thundeeerrrrrr May 12 '22

I met a Chinese guy two weeks ago in Australia. Really nice guy, well traveled seemed to be progressive and all. Started to talk to him about Chinese politics and you really can't get around talking about Taiwan and the Uyghurs. When I asked him about the Uyghurs he said: "Well it's really the mainstream media and Governments that use this as an argument against China, it's just not true." and "there are no camps, what you see in the media is fake." To Taiwan he said: "Well there are historical reasons and it belongs to China. The people in Taiwan are also not opposed to become part of China but the US is influencing them so they can't do it peacefully." Safe to say I was stunned. He said he studied engineering in China and worked there for a couple of years before starting to travel. He was around 26 when I met him. If the young and educate people are already this deep in the propaganda I can only guess how bad it is for the rest of the population. At the time I failed to mention that what Russia is doing in Ukraine has the same justification and regret it because I would have really liked his take on that.

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u/RIP2UAnders May 12 '22

Mate I have chinese friends that age, they actually studied their uni in the UK.

When I asked them what they thought of the tiananmen incident they just stared at me and had no fking idea what I meant.

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u/FrogFrozen May 12 '22

"Studied engineering" Thaaaaat might have something to do with his views, actually. Psychological studies have found that engineers, electricians, and mechanics tend to be a lot more susceptible to black and white world views and extremist propaganda.

It's because those professions handle everything in very hardline terms of black and white. So, the more your mind leans into those thought patterns, the better you'll be at those professions.

But on the flipside, it's so much easier for you to succumb to extremist ideas because of those same thought patterns. It's why ISIS and other such groups never seem to have a shortage of engineers and mechanics to make their bombs.

Really fucking wish I could find those research articles from years ago that I got this from, but my Google-Fu seems quite weak at the moment.

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u/Pie_is_pie_is_pie May 12 '22

I would really like to see those studies, because whilst don’t find it unlikely anecdotally all the engineers, electricians and mechanics I know are way less susceptible to extreme propaganda.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '22 edited 19d ago

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u/Misdemeanour2020 Ukraine May 12 '22

Australia has been dealing with China for years. Trust me, we've been watching every move.

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u/FrogsEverywhere May 12 '22

Been watching them move all of their money into your banks and all of your housing into their hands.

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u/Acrobatic-Nose-1773 May 12 '22

Maybe we should start sending Taiwan some weapons too. With a letter "for when you need it"

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u/[deleted] May 12 '22

We are… and have advisors on the ground..

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u/isunoo May 12 '22

Taiwan's military is actually really well armed with lots of relatively high end equipment's (F16Vs, Abrams (on the way), apaches, lots of domestic jets, missiles, and rockets.) What they really need is to have the Ukrainian mindset, to mobilize their much smaller population and maintain a large well trained reserve force. Their reserves are very poorly trained and maintained.

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u/Testiclese May 12 '22

Chairman Xi’s mercy knows no bounds, comrade! I’d love to see something more official from Chin tho.

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u/mchappee May 11 '22

I think it's more that Russia will not be able to help China through their vicious recession so they'll have to cozy-up to the U.S. They made similar overtures to Canada last week with a message clearly aimed at the U.S.

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u/Frankieandlotsabeans May 12 '22

Honestly I hope this is the start of enhanced cooperation between the two powers I'm tired of waiting for space flight and we need to clap them alien cheeks boy.

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u/Car-Facts May 12 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

I'd love to see a world where the US and China cooperate, but I'd also love to see the Chinese people receive proper freedoms and their government to pay for what they have done to the Uyghurs.

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u/GoodByeRubyTuesday87 BANNED May 12 '22

And Hong Kong, and Chinese journalists, and their treatment of Taiwan

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u/diflord May 12 '22

All up in there, Captain Kirk style.

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u/BadAtHumaningToo May 12 '22

I'm not sure if the Aliens even have guts, but im gonna be all up in them.

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u/joranth May 12 '22

And xenomorphs have a big mouth and a little mouth, so…

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u/Frankieandlotsabeans May 12 '22

Gonna mess up their insides with my centimeterinator

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u/Testiclese May 12 '22

That’s kind of impossible. China and the US have opposing geopolitical interests. I mean - come on - how do you propose they settle the Taiwan issue.

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u/northbk5 May 12 '22

What was the dialogue between Canada and China?

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u/mchappee May 12 '22

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECwGdEUXcFg

The part that mentions the Canada/China thing is at 8:20, but watch the whole thing. It's really good.

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u/northbk5 May 12 '22

Interesting. Was he implying at the end there that China was doing the U.S bidding to a degree with Canada ?

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u/mchappee May 12 '22

Yes. China is scared to death right now. The sanctions that we slapped on Russia would set China back 50 years. Putin, to his credit, made his economy extremely sanction-proof by focusing on energy exports to Europe and China. Not true with China. Everything China makes can be sourced elsewhere and nearly everything passes through the South China Sea that the Pacific fleet could shut down tomorrow.

China was hoping that teaming up with the Russians could keep the U.S. at arms-length, but Putin proved that wrong.

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u/Opposite-Power-3492 May 11 '22

This exactly. Rumors have been going around this week that Chinese leadership really regrets siding with russians because they don't want to be seen siding with losers.

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u/Bausarita12 May 12 '22

Good now everyone know that both baldy and xi are a couple of fucking lunatics who think similarly to one another. What a tell-all move China. Try sending a drone to my balcony to tell me what the fuck I can and can’t do and you’ll see what happens. What a couple of full on fucking weirdos those two are.

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u/mycall May 12 '22

Ask yourself what do they have in common? A one-party system, no checks and balances.

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u/Yantarlok May 12 '22

Putin is his only check and balance.

President Xi has a check and balance in the form of the CPP Polit Bureau. This is the same apparatus Russia once had which saw the removal of Nikita Khrushchev after his "We will bury you speech".

Both are authoritarian regimes but China has a few more rail guards in place.

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u/ChikaraNZ May 12 '22

China acts only for it's own self interest, regardless of what is right or wrong. Including respect for international laws. They will cite those laws when they think it's to their advantage, but ignore them when it suits their purposes. Such as the military base they went ahead and built on Spratley island, just to name one of many examples.

The only good thing is, I believe the world is slowly waking up to how China behaves, and will stop doing as much business with them in the future.

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u/MendocinoReader May 11 '22

Yup. Rats preparing to abandon a sinking ship. But that won’t stop the rats from grabbing what they can from the ship’s storehouse on their way out.

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u/pecklepuff May 12 '22

Gee I wonder how Russia would react to having a foreign country take some of it's territory? Territory Russia shouldn't even have in the first place. You know it's gonna be one world-class tantrum.

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u/ANJ-2233 Expat May 12 '22

Yep!! Imagine if someone tried to annex some of their territory….

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u/defund_abortion May 12 '22

Now's a good time. Their military is getting pretty depleted.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '22

We’ll find out soon with China always having the intentions to rule over a weakened communist Russia

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u/Malaysiaman222 May 11 '22

You know what Cao Cao said in one of the novels? He would rather betray the world than have the world betray him.

Russia has served China's purpose. Now it is time for China to shit on Russia and turn its back away.

Signature Chinese self-serving diplomacy at its finest.

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u/GregEvangelista May 12 '22

My man. This guy knows. All you need to do to know what China will do is to look at what China has always done. Whether it's when they believe they're weak, or that they're strong. They're so predictable that the romance of the three kingdoms is still relevant.

Champions of effective pragmatic corruption since day one.

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u/anorabora May 12 '22

He would rather betray the world than have the world betray him

Cao Cao gets some rad lines in most of the things I've seen him in and that's no exception.

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u/Tzsycho May 11 '22

The "Winner" is completely immaterial to China. China would back Russia all the way to the hilt (and then into a corner) if it was beneficial to them long term. China is in a precarious position economically and internally (Covid) and will not risk adding another set of complications (sanctions) to the equation.

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u/Blewedup May 11 '22

China drooling over the balkanization of Russia let’s be honest.

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u/its_a_metaphor_morty May 11 '22

It's not balkanisation when nothing's splitting. Russia at worst is going to lose some territory it has illegally occupied.

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u/Archivist_of_Lewds USA May 11 '22

Its not splitting yet because sanctions have just started to hit.

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u/Blewedup May 11 '22

Nothing is splitting yet.

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u/Sigmar_Heldenhammer May 11 '22

"I'm playing both sides so that I always come out on top." - China

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u/snikelfritz420 May 12 '22

I didnt know mac had a chinese relative

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u/198Throwawayy May 12 '22

Or sort of like you realize you're on a group project with an absolute dumbass and you want out

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u/Sirix_8472 May 11 '22

2-3% of trade income Vs 15% from USA and roughly same from EU. The financials were called out by Biden a few weeks ago as warning to China, It to get caught up in backing Russia and providing supplies/support or to assist with funding.

Essentially, look to where you make your money, knowing for China that's all that matters for their 5 year plans, significant economic growth year on year in 5 year phases for development. And there isn't an alternative plan. Just do it.

So they won't jeopardize that. With Russia's poor performance, even Putin's lack of announcement on may 9th, zero fly over as is basically tradition, asking for aid repeatedly from China. They will be viewed as weak.

Just waiting on China now, waiting in the wings, biding their time, letting Russia expend its resources beyond the point of no return and over committing, and what that points done and they have pulled any resources, units, volunteers from territories and used to stockpiles and manufacturing capability.... China will be waiting to do what Russia attempted. "Restore historical lands under their control".

China will try for a retake of South Eastern Russia if for no other reason than expansion and it will be possible, it's not heavily populated, It developed areas, low resources people's, means and education. Any resistance....well, China won't worry about human rights in any case.

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u/Sniflix May 12 '22

Unlike Russia, China is not ready to destroy its economy for an empire pipe dream. They will however, use their leverage against Russia to get something out of it - discounted oil and minerals for one.

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u/triplealpha May 12 '22

It goes deeper than that. China would likely stand to benefit from the rebuilding of Ukraine as well both in terms of labor and materials sold. They’ve been sending “foreign aid” for years around the world providing infrastructure for increases political ties

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u/[deleted] May 11 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/brupje May 11 '22

Opportunistic rather than spineless.

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u/No_Caregiver_5740 May 11 '22

I expect my government to be just as opportunistic

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u/Jango1996 May 11 '22

Every country acts in its own self-interest first.

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u/mistervanilla May 11 '22

They're authoritarians, of course they are spineless. They must always be perceived as being correct, or they lose their authority.

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u/quarrelau May 11 '22

China has weighed up the cost of western sanctions & understood which side it needs to be on.

China doesn't give a shit about Russia unless it is useful to China.

Amazing news though if true. It really isolates Putin and will bring the war to a quicker conclusion.

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u/ChrisStoneGermany May 11 '22

China's thoughts are like "Long war + unclear ending + possible sanctions = no good for china's business"

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u/bigroxxor May 11 '22

And the one thing we know china cares most for is their bottom line

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u/RedicusFinch May 11 '22

yeah and surprisingly they aren't willing to sacrifice it for false glory.

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u/BadAtHumaningToo May 12 '22

Russias false glory at that.

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u/mopthebass May 11 '22

Let's not pretend this is an uncommon trait for a global power.

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u/LsDiSkEwL May 11 '22

Pretend that nations don't value self interest? Any responsible nation should value the their own interests it's their fucking job.

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u/duh374 May 11 '22

Right? Altruism is a hindrance in running a country. You help other countries because it also benefits you in some other way.

The whole reason the west is helping Ukraine right now is that a weak russia/strong neighboring countries is a massive security benefit to all of NATO.

If China decided to conquer mongolia, I’d be willing to bet that there would be some sanctions and thats about it.

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u/cpcfax1 May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22

Interesting historical funfact. Mongolia WAS a part of Imperial China until it declared independence in 1911, the same year the Qing Dynasty came to an end.

What's more interesting is how Mongolia became part of the Chinese empire because the Mongols were the invaders(Yuan dynasty was a Mongolian one) and later on because they aided the Manchus in conquering China in 1644 and given elevated privileges as part of their ruling elite.

That historical legacy is one key reason why even after their communist regime ended, they maintained their close ties to Russia. They feel they have more to fear from the PRC....and they're not necessarily wrong.

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u/OhLordyLordNo May 11 '22

Adding the world's granary, massive gas reserves and 44 million people to the EU really helps in solidifying the European power block next to the USA and China. It's a big win.

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u/IAintChoosinThatName May 11 '22

bottom line

BECAUSE STONE COLD SAYS S...

Sorry, force of habit.

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u/HulkHunter May 11 '22

AND weak Russia is cheap Russia (and free Siberia).

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u/MendocinoReader May 11 '22

But honey, I thought you loved me ….

“Friendship between the two States has no limits, there are no ”forbidden“ areas of cooperation, strengthening of bilateral strategic cooperation is neither aimed against third countries nor affected by the changing international environment and circumstantial changes in third countries.” [Russian Federation-China Joint Statement, 2/4/2022]

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u/hotasanicecube May 11 '22

China:

YAAA, We are one of only a few counties that Russian can buy shit from now!!

Finds out Russia is broke and wants to pay in Rubles…

China: oh fuck that….

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u/cock_babtridge May 11 '22

Pragmatism rules there. I used to work in Beijing, every meeting i went into the focus was always ‘what is the most pragmatic course of action?’

Essentially where we in the West lead our thinking with ideology they lead with pragmatism, but they do this to a flaw as the human side is often overlooked. It’s amazing to see them do this but it doesn’t particularly shock me, backing the losing side is not pragmatic.

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u/Namorath82 May 11 '22

China does what is best for China

they are very pragmatic and because they are highly centralized authortarian state they can pivot on a dime to get their goals done quickly

But because they are pragmatic, and will do what is best for themselves always means they don't have any friends (sorry Russia)

America for all its faults, bumbling and chaos, has a lot of friends where when it counts, will be there for them

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u/GrizzledFart May 11 '22

they are very pragmatic

I prefer to call it "unprincipled".

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u/Steinfall May 11 '22

China is only for the financial benefit. Go against EU and USA = bad business Sanctions = bad business

Can Russia compensate the „bad business“ = no

What can Russia offer? Oil and gas. But China is already on the path to leave oil and gas. No urgent need to support Russia to get cheap oil and gas

Because: Russia will be weakened anyway. So: Whatever Russia could offer China, China will get anyway by dictating the conditions.

Russia is done. Period.

Putin managed to unify Europe, expand NATO, to force Russia into dependency of Chinese goodwill, to throw back Russian development back to mid 1990s, to lose influence in the world.

Up to Feb 23 he was able to position Russia in the best way possible. In the morning of Feb 24 he gave orders which fucked up everything.

Still unbelievable!

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u/acuntex May 11 '22

Russia is done. Period.

That's my favorite part.

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u/krnl_pan1c USA May 11 '22

Putin managed to unify Europe, expand NATO, to force Russia into dependency of Chinese goodwill, to throw back Russian development back to mid 1990s, to lose influence in the world.

Don't forget he managed to show the world what a laughing stock the "number two military" is while making it even worse.

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u/wnose May 11 '22

And he did it ALL in less than 70 days. Amazing.

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u/noyrb1 May 11 '22

Asshole might win an ironic nobel peace price

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u/Tzsycho May 11 '22 edited May 11 '22

China weighed the cost of sanctions for sure, but China would already be averse to supporting Russia overtly because of Russia's history of recognizing break away provinces. This is HIGHLY threatening to the One China policy because it lends additional credence to Taiwan. Additionally it gives precedent to the separatist areas of China. Tibet, East Turkistan, Macau, Manchukou, Southern Mongolia, and most importantly Hong Kong second only to Taiwan.

edit: bad at typing, corrected spelling. Also bad at some grammar

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u/phcollie May 11 '22 edited May 11 '22

That and the fact they realize that soon Russia will not be able to pay her bills due....and that China will not accept.

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u/AndyC_88 May 11 '22

China will claim Vladivostok in Eastern Russia in the coming years I have no doubt... It's historically Chinese after all.

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u/Pzwang4 Ukraine May 12 '22

It was stolen by the Russian empire during the qing dynasty of China.

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u/quarrelau May 11 '22

Great point.

This is also why the Serbian right-wing media turned on Putin when he started equating the Donbas region with Kosovo all of a sudden.

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u/nuadnug Ukraine May 11 '22

Russia doesn't just recognize any breakaway provinces. Russia only likes to recognize the breakaway states that Russia itself created.

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u/Greenempress May 11 '22

Also China is itchy to take back some of the lands Russians took during Ching Dynasty..

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u/AndyC_88 May 11 '22

That's a bingo

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u/Coblyat May 11 '22

<3 "Unlimited Friendship" <3

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u/ZURATAMA1324 May 11 '22

This is a good day for Taiwan 🇹🇼

The free world has demonstrated its resolve. New solidarity, foreign policy defense doctrines, and identites are forming in light of this war. There is a redefinition of what it means to be a free country, and to support liberal democracies. What an exciting time to be alive.

And its giving tyants and authoritarians pause, and we know they are scared. Good. 😈

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u/No_Caregiver_5740 May 11 '22

As someone who follows Chinese politics this is a bit much

but then again its this guy saying it

https://youtu.be/1xNHmHpERH8

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u/dljones010 May 11 '22

Wow. Nailed it.

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u/eyelurketheboard May 11 '22

China doesn’t want war, they want to take over the world economically. Russia Hitleresque ideals.

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u/JohnnyValet May 11 '22

Belt and Road BABY!

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u/CapnCrunchier101 May 11 '22

Yes plus Russia being dirt poor and broken helps serve Chinese geopolitical goals as well. Weak resource rich neighbor to the north which ultimately becomes dependent on china plus much needed military tech the Russians will sell at fire sale prices...

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u/bindik May 11 '22

Guys remember, they say completely different things to english speaking audience outside of China than what they say in their mainland Chinese media or Russia.

They tell west that ukraine has its territorial sovereignty, but then they said that donbas is Russian etc

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u/something-okay Ukraine May 11 '22

Oh yeah, China are so two faced! I think it’s obvious China knows how this will play out now and they know if Russia lose, they win big. China are a huge winner in this war, all they have to do is sit back and count the money they’ll be taking from Russia, probably ultimately enslaving them with debt and turning it into a vassal state.

As long as they appear neutral, Russia will be forced to get sucked in by China. They are already selling their oil and gas to India for more and more reduced rates.

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u/WeddingElly May 11 '22 edited May 12 '22

I read Xinhua in native Chinese and the coverage on Ukraine has indeed changed, but not quite in the way that everyone here is talking about. In China, pro-Ukraine or pro-Russia is not really the issue or the focus. Ukraine war coverage is more and more through the lens of Western and NATO interference behind the scenes.

The accurate way to describe Xi and CCP's approach to this is not "China is siding with Ukraine" but rather CCP is shifting away from the disadvantage of being openly associated with Russian genocide to an approach more favorable to the Chinese government: stepping down support for Russia on the outside and reporting the war internally from an anti-NATO/"Western-background threat perspective. In this way, they both preserve foreign relations with the West (especially trade relations) based on the perception they are stepping away from Russia and obeying sanctions and at the same time stoking anti-West sentiment and continue to consolidate central power internally.

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u/wa2b May 11 '22

That makes sense.
The other problem for China is that it cannot be fully on Ukraine's side, because that would mean that they'd have to stop buying Russian energy.

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u/No_Caregiver_5740 May 12 '22

I think Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba put it the best. He said “China is not an enemy, not a friend, but just a trading partner”

That's a good way of putting things, Postwar, the EU and the Americans won't really need to buy Ukrainian agriculture considering they already produce a surplus. Plus for the past 2 decades, China has been the biggest customer for Ukrainian defense and manufactured goods. No need to alienate that huge market

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u/MonkeyVsPigsy May 12 '22

This should be the top comment.

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u/Wonderful-Job3514 May 11 '22

Yup. If they won’t walk back the failure of their zero Covid policy back home then they won’t be walking back support for Russia either. It’s all fake.

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u/ChaosJustChaos May 11 '22

Alright, what the fuck's China up to now

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u/EndWarByMasteringIt May 11 '22

"Protecting China's interest," same as they always do. By which we mean not any of the interests of the actual people of China, but whatever the political oligarchs decide.

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u/autom8dWpnizdAutism May 11 '22

Probably figure that Ukraine is going to win, Russia is knocked down 4721 pegs in global influence, and China sees opportunity in Ukraine as part of rebuilding.

The only threat, the ONLY threat Russia poses to the world right now, is nukes. Ukraine is whipping the absolute shit out of Russia, Russia cannot pose a military threat of any weight to any other country, let alone China.

So now is time to seize on Russia's losses and capitulate favor and power in Russia's influence vacuum that will surely be left behind.

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u/Blewedup May 11 '22

China sees this as the opening scenes of the death of a great power. If Russia breaks apart because they are destroyed economically and militarily it leaves China the big dog in their entire hemisphere.

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u/uniqueName1002 May 12 '22

Knock Knock

North Korea threatens to nuke you unless you correct your statement and acknowledge The People's Democratic Republic of Korea as the "big dog" in the hemisphere.

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u/Most-Bench6465 May 12 '22

😂😂 Who?

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u/[deleted] May 11 '22 edited May 15 '22

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u/EndWarByMasteringIt May 11 '22

Taiwan doesn't really need to think about China's intentions. It needs to arm itself with enough anti-ship missiles and allies to prevent its genocide.

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u/TonsOfTabs Ukraine May 11 '22

Taiwan has armed itself with direct military action from the US. Biden stated the US would directly intervene should china try to take Taiwan. He actually said it a few times over the last couple of months. Didn’t beat around the bush, he literally said it and directed it to china(obviously). Taiwan doesn’t have anything to worry about.

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u/hebsbbejakbdjw May 12 '22

Even bernie sanders supports defending taiwan with military force

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u/Slimh2o May 11 '22

I agree. Shouldn't it read, "Can return "to" all its territories?

The wording in this headline worries me, a little...

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u/Cyclonit May 11 '22

They are (clakming to be) dropping support for Russia in favor of protecting their relationships with the west. Russia has proven to be a shit show, therefor China is less willing to side with them.

However the Chinese government is known for saying one thing and doing the opposite. They are about as honest and trustworthy as Putin. Thus I would take this kind of news with a huge grain of salt.

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u/socialistrob May 11 '22

Even a rhetorical shift is important. China is going to try to play both sides to their benefit but the fact that they aren’t throwing all their weight behind Russia is bad news for Putin. China will still buy tons of Russian oil and raw materials but they might demand these at a steep discount and if Russia says no China can always slide a bit more to the west and leave Russia even more isolated. China won’t help Ukraine but they will bend Russia over a barrel. If both NATO and China turn on Russia then basically every neutral country will as well. If China backs Russia the neutral nations will stay neutral. China is the king maker and they know it so even a rhetorical shift is important.

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u/scraglor May 11 '22

Exactly. If you are India and China has already drawn a line in the sand you can go along with buying Russian oil and gas just saying you’re impartial and looking after the interests of your people. If you are going against both nato and China on your own, that’s a totally different narrative

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u/Ask_Me_Who May 11 '22

The last thing China wanted was Russia to invade. The second worst option was a Russian humiliation.

A successful strike against the contested DLC regions would have risked triggering Western unity, but would have been acceptable for China's long term plans. Essentially no change from the geopolitical status quo.

A devastating strike and successful capture of everywhere east of Dnieper would have irked the West but at least left China with a strong military ally that was cut off from wider trade and political relations. Better for China, it would have been a model for the invasion of a modern well-equipped nation that it could use as a blueprint for Taiwan with clear evidence that western support would not represent an existential crisis to the operation. Maybe even enough that the West wouldn't consider sending much short term support if the defeat in Ukraine was crushing enough. It would be damaging as Western unity caused trade barriers, but if the East of the country was totally taken, quickly, there was a good chance everything would find a new normal leaving China unaffected in the long term.

But what they have now, in the limp-dicked failure of an invasion is the worst case scenario. Western supported militia is now seen as having the ability to crush a much larger force, through technological and intelligence force multipliers. Russia is out of the game in terms of military threat, short of nuclear, and its resources are potentially toxic to the point of triggering sanctions if purchased. The West is unified, cocky, and has shown willingness to sacrifice economically to remove dependence on totalitarian human rights violating regimes (like China).

So they're left in a strange place. They want Russia to be a big well armed buffer state between them and NATO/US forces if they ever make a move on Taiwan, and to be a resource trading partner in the interim. So they'll do what they can to stop the full fall, because a Russia that can be exploited for its resources and industry may be an economic boon to China amid their own economic struggles, but they won't risk Western trade sanctions or inspiring Western unity for that. All of their plans rely on continuing to keep the West economically reliant on China as a means of soft power.

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u/tree_boom May 11 '22

All of their plans rely on continuing to keep the West economically reliant on China as a means of soft power.

This is a double edged sword. It's a kind of MAD, and provided China is convinced that war with Taiwan means the collapse of that economic entanglement, they're not going to invade them (and you're right that they're probably second-thinking that anyway after Ukraine's performance)

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u/Ask_Me_Who May 11 '22

The general view seems to be that China was relying on that economic power to keep, at the very least, most European nations out of the prospective war while using investment in the third world to prevent Western powers from quickly replacing their supply chains. Losing American trade would be painful but China could plan for and take steps to reduce that impact while America would be (theoretically) taken by surprise, and it opens the question of how popular a war against China would be domestically in the US if it meant significant economic hardships.

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u/HoAdanac May 12 '22

China has a massive trade imbalance in its favor with the US. Economically, they would suffer far worse. Not to mention that in such a scenario where there's a full embargo between the US and China there is likely something of the sort for the EU/NATO/Japan/SK/Australia too. Nations where it also has a massive imbalance in its favor.

Where Western nations would hurt is in some industries where the loss of supply chains would be rough. But decoupling is already being done by Western corporations to China while China is still fully reliant on the Western consumer market. And all those sales in the supply chain in China would vanish as the Chinese domestic market and Western corporations are the backbone of all of those businesses. You can't replace most of those sales with ones to Africa, Latin America or the Mideast.

There's no amount of planning that can be done for China to somehow replace the Western consumer market unless there's some undiscovered and fully developed continent we don't know about.

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u/Slimh2o May 11 '22

That's why we need to return manufacturing back to the U.S among other reasons....

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u/gesocks May 11 '22

Oh no. I think China wanted it.

They wanted to test the waters for a future taiwan invasion. They had not really smth to lose.

An isolated russuq gives them more power over russia.

They just could not imagine russia to lose

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u/Ask_Me_Who May 11 '22

Isolated Russia would be fine, it's the rapid rearmament of a politically united Europe and America that's disastrous. That was a likely unacceptable risk irregardless of if Russia won, forced on China by Russia and swallowed because China needed to maintain at least the façade of alliance with its norther neighbour so Russia could act as a shield.

And Russia isn't just going to be isolated. It's going to be crippled. We're talking about a financial collapse that could make Zimbabwe look successful, and its natural resources may well end up too toxic to buy even at slashed prices. Keeping them as a political player at that point becomes to China the same as their support for North Korea, but on a scale orders of magnitude larger. Funnelling money and aid in just to keep a buffer land between them and the West.

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u/thebeorn May 11 '22

Wow a coherent explanation of the ramification with a Chinese POV well done.

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u/Dave_The_Slushy May 11 '22

De facto annexation of Siberia. And not a shot will be fired.

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u/infographia May 11 '22

Civil war in Russia -> Siberian republics declares independence -> China recognizes them and secures alliances. I could see this happening.

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u/Dave_The_Slushy May 11 '22

If I was a Siberian I would be pissed that it was my young men dying while Muscovite draft dodgers continued to live the good life.

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u/myne May 11 '22

It'll be interesting to see if China's propaganda machine starts targeting them with discontenting truths.

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u/Dave_The_Slushy May 11 '22

Oh man that shit will get brutal. I mean, western satirist are making fun of Russia's ineptitude, China will go full alpha mean girl.

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u/Lehk May 11 '22

Propaganda is pretty easy when you don’t have to lie.

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u/GhostSparta May 11 '22

They see the writing on the wall Ukrainians going to win this out right soon. They also probably have intel on internal Russian state atm maybe they know Putin is on the way out soon.

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u/Elbynerual May 11 '22

It's so they can use the same argument when they try to "take back" Taiwan

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u/thebeorn May 11 '22

They probably decided against that for now I think

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u/Lehk May 11 '22

Nah, they just watched what that results in x26,000

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u/ktn699 May 11 '22

china's looking at the potential 1 trillion dollars of infrastructure projects to rebuild Ukraine. If you look at how theyve used infrastructure projects to saddle poorer countries in south america and africa with debt, then you'll immediately get whats up. imagine rebuilding the port of Mariupol and getting rights for a naval base or some shit.

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u/Warfoki May 11 '22

That and, realizing that Putin has nothing for them anymore and as such, absolutely not worth risking sanctions over.

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u/PlzSendDunes Lithuania May 11 '22

Putin must sell out Russian resources below market value already, so CCP basically owns Russia. No benefit out of siding with a dead horse.

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u/Cobblestone-boner May 11 '22

Implying the Ukrainians would ever grant them that right after they sided with Russia at the war’s outset

Is this a serious comment?

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u/w1YY May 11 '22

I can't imagine the west who have fed Umraine weapons will be happy if Ukraine sells out to China who showed them zero support.

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u/Echelon64 'Murrica May 11 '22

That's what we said about Hungary yet here we are.

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u/ktn699 May 11 '22

if theyre smart they wont. but then again there are plenty of nations that got suckered.

if anything, I'd trade for a US naval base in say Mariupol or Sevastopol.

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u/planborcord May 11 '22

I think Ukraine should use both ports to develop its own formidable Navy, instead of leasing ports out to foreign countries. They’re done with that, I think.

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u/ktn699 May 11 '22

I'm sure the US would be happy to help Ukraine develop a navy - in fact - we've helped w Ukraine reforming its Armed Forces for the last 8 years. Honestly, though, Navies are expensive and it's not like Ukraine is going to be running huge surpluses anytime soon after this war. I don't think you could go wrong with the arsenal of democracy hanging out with you. Honestly, US military in Ukraine before the war would have made Ruzzia think twice about this.

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u/scraglor May 11 '22

A US base in Odessa or somewhere goes a long way to shoring up security for the short to mid term while they rebuild the country. Russia isn’t going to invade again in 5-10 years with American boots on the ground.

It also goes a way to paying off some of the goodwill they owe the US for supporting them through all of this (yes I know it’s a cheap investment relative to the US to fight a war against Russia potentially crippling them for under $100bil and no US lives lost)

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u/HoAdanac May 11 '22

You say this as if Ukraine would worry about the US trying to turn Crimea or Ukraine into the 51st state. I don't think the US even wants or needs a naval base in Ukraine but I think Ukraine will jump at any opportunity to somehow host the US military in Ukraine. I imagine something land based will eventually be worked out.

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u/cptironside May 11 '22

China must not be allowed anywhere NEAR financing projects in Ukraine. The last thing we need is the Chinese military on our doorsteps.

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u/whoami_whereami May 11 '22

getting rights for a naval base

That one wouldn't really work because the Montreux Protocol that regulates ship traffic in and out of the Black Sea through the Bosporus and the Dardanelles heavily limits the presence of military vessels from non-Black Sea powers in the Black Sea.

No capital ships or submarines are allowed. The maximum tonnage is limited to 10,000 tonnes per ship (about the size of an Arleigh Burke class destroyer), up to an aggregate maximum of 45,000 tonnes of warships at any given time of which at most 30,000 tonnes can be from a single country. Guns on the ship can only be up to 203mm in calibre. Ships can only stay for a maximum duration of 21 days, and Turkey has to be notified of a ship's passage through the straits at least 15 days in advance. And during war times Turkey can impose further limits or block passage through the straits completely.

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u/DragonSkeld May 11 '22

Up to whatever saves/makes them the most money.

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u/SpakysAlt May 11 '22

Glad to hear this but I’m skeptical since there are reports that they’re running pro Putin propaganda all over their media. In the end China is all about business though, and Russia is bad for business right now.

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u/thebeorn May 11 '22

The Chinese tv feed of a T72 blowing its top sky high sends a powerful message. Perhaps you have seen it? Better yet it was done far behind enemy lines💪

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u/SheridanVsLennier May 11 '22

Not just far behind enemy lines, it was practically on the beach!

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u/Pjpjpjpjpj May 12 '22

Unfortunately the commentary it aired with in China described Ukraine as the aggressor and Russia defending itself.

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u/Dennace May 11 '22

China probably fired the ATGM that took out the tank just to get the video.

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u/WishboneTrick5219 May 11 '22

As a mandarin speaker, I didn’t find any news like this in Mandarin report. Any source for this other than this video?

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u/Striking_Barnacle_31 May 12 '22

I had to scroll way to far for this. I can't find any sources on this besides... this post. Maybe something will pop up tomorrow... If it is it seems like a weird piece of propaganda, not sure what it's trying to accomplish.

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u/wa2b May 11 '22

Could be due to the fact that Chinese officials say completely different things in English to international audiences, and internally in Chinese.

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u/makiko4 May 12 '22

Could be but I also can’t find anything in English.

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u/bossk538 USA May 11 '22

I’m pretty skeptical of anything that sounds too good to be true. Need another source

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u/pul123PUL May 11 '22

There is a bunch of noise on twitter that China is trying to kiss american ass and talk about being friends and putting past misunderstandings behind them. Nothing i wanted to post but enough to say there are positive signals..

What hasnt been heard from China recently is a bunch of talk about China and Russia being best friends for ever. Seemingly there are limits to a no limits partnership.

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u/wa2b May 12 '22

Chinese diplomats are very busy

  1. Keep telling Putin their partnership has no limits
  2. Tell Ukraine that you fully support their point of view
  3. Tell the Chinese that poor Russians have all the "selfish and greedy Westerners" fighting against them

This is beyond double-talk. It's triple talk!

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u/dreadpiratesleepy May 12 '22

China ain’t trying to make any friends, and aren’t even trying to posture on the war - they’re trying to establish a pretense of retaking territories so they can lean on that when they make moves on Taiwan.

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u/joeschmidth May 11 '22

Next step: China attacks Russia and takes most of its eastern territories.

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u/shadfc May 11 '22

Isn't this a Taiwan play? They think Taiwan is theirs, so they're just prepping for making a move to reclaim what is/was theirs.

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u/andrew851138 May 11 '22

Came here looking for this comment. They will claim Taiwan was annexed and rightfully should go back to the sovereign nation.

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u/jtgibson May 11 '22

If that's their play, they might see it backfire, because the original sovereign nation of Taiwan is and always has been the Republic of China, who are still its current owners and who also claim original sovereignty over the whole of mainland China.

The only thing that's kept any nation of the world from ruling in favour of ROC rather than recognising the PRC as the successor state is the PRC's political power on the basis of its massive military and heavy intermingling with the global economy. But given what capitalist democracies have learned just recently, having an economic dependency on an authoritarian regime ends badly for everyone.

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u/DeltaAlphaGulf May 11 '22

I also wondered if that was their logic. Sure yeah of course Ukraine can take back its territories just like what we want to do with Taiwan right guys?

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u/HereticalCatPope May 12 '22

China is testing the waters, and they aren’t liking the results. Taiwan should follow Ukraine’s example and lay the groundwork for having a foreign legion. The CCP is hated by so many people. Taiwan wasn’t annexed by another country, it was the result of a civil war where the communists barely did anything to fight the Japanese while the nationalists did the majority of the fighting and Mao just bided his time.

Taiwan has a decent native defense industry and much longer diplomatic (now unofficial, thanks Nixon) history with the US than Ukraine. The strategic importance of Taiwan is massive for maritime shipping in the region. The CCP is likely reassessing its vanity project of enslaving Taiwan because the US and the free world would arm them to the teeth, much like Ukraine. US naval superiority and logistics in the region are well established. China has alienated Australia, and we’d likely see South Korea and Japan find common cause and improve relations. A unified neighborhood is dangerous to despots.

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u/TiredGothGirl May 11 '22

So lemme see if I've got this straight...

China has given permission to Ukraine so that they can continue to be a sovereign nation with the added bonus of having all Russian annexed/occupied territories returned to Ukraine.

Huh.

How generous of them...🖕🏻🙄🖕🏻

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u/SpicyPeaSoup May 11 '22

I give you my permission to retain all of your current property and rights, if you so wish.

Thank me later.

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u/TiredGothGirl May 11 '22

Right lol?!? It's insanity!

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u/Manchesterist May 11 '22

I´ve heard lately that some chinese speakers have been harassed and oppressed in Siberia...

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u/thermalblac May 11 '22

Don't trust the Chinese. They're talking out of both ends. The domestic Chinese news outlets are brainwashing their citizens - parroting Russian propaganda and bashing Ukraine.

China has a grudge against the world for their century of humiliation. That's their core motivation.

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u/HereticalCatPope May 12 '22

It’d be less humiliating if they stopped reminding everyone all the time.

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u/PoutineSmash May 11 '22

... chinease trolls online will now twist themselves to follow that governement line

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u/truecore May 11 '22

Chinese netizens have been doing mental gymnastics for years. The whole "I use a VPN to sign onto websites my country has banned so that I can defend my country" was a pretty big cognitive hurdle to leap, and that's just how they start their day.

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u/CabbageMan92 May 11 '22

Not seeing a whole lot about this online atm

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u/Darcy_2021 May 11 '22

What’s the meaning of this? Did Ukraine need China’s permission to fight back for its own territories?

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u/Puzzleheaded-Job2235 May 11 '22

I think this possibly means that China is not going to support Russia if Ukraine retakes all of its lost territories. China might be calculating that a Ukrainian victory will weaken Russia enough to put it completely in China’s sphere of influence.

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u/Travalgard May 11 '22

I think they just don't want to be seen as having supported the losing side of a war in Europe and are now doing a 180. It's bad for the credibility of the Chinese leadership if the guy they support gets absolutely stomped.

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u/Elbynerual May 11 '22

They will use it in the future to defend their "taking back" of Taiwan

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u/Bjorneo May 11 '22

That is indeed encouraging maybe they will provide anti aircraft weapons?;-)

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u/cjc4096 May 11 '22

Maybe they'll provide cloned soviet aircraft.

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u/Extreme_Salamander May 11 '22

Like the world needs China's agreement or favor to do anything...

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u/Fuzzy-Shame-9919 May 11 '22

This goes deeper than most realize. China still wants its revenge on the world for the century of humiliation. If this goes really bad for Russia and they show they are weak, China will take back the areas they lost to the Soviet Union.

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u/Sufficient_Fix6965 May 11 '22

China does China. Great opportunity for them to look good to the West on the surface. Russia is proving to be an almost worthless ally. China doesn’t give two shits about Ukraine but they’ll make it look like they do so they can slide in later and make some money when the building contractors come in.

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u/twitterStatus_Bot May 11 '22

⚡️China has made its choice in favor of Ukraine, - Oleksiу Arestovich.The Chinese leadership held consultations and concluded that Ukraine, as a result of this war, can return all its territories, including Crimea and Donbass, an adviser to the head of the President's Office said


Video is in tweet but can't be fetched. Please DM to me with a link to submission because it's not supposed to happen.


posted by @Flash43191300


Thanks to inteoryx, videos are supported even without Twitter API V2 support! Middle finger to you, twitter

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u/Which_Comfort_2660 May 11 '22

I've been saying to my friends and family that i believe China is thrilled with this war. I believe they are waiting for the collapse to jump in to Russia and buy up everything after. I cant see many other countries that will be willing to invest in Russia after this

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u/maexchen93 May 12 '22

is there more proof to it than a Twitter Post?